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Question for ai:  I have read that Pythagoras wrote about reincarnation can you tell me what he said?

Yes, Pythagoras—the famous Greek philosopher and mathematician—did have teachings on reincarnation, and some of these ideas have been passed down through ancient sources, though much of what he said is shrouded in mystery. Pythagoras founded a religious movement known as the Pythagorean Brotherhood, which was a combination of philosophical, mathematical, and spiritual principles. One of the central aspects of this movement was a belief in metempsychosis, which is the idea that the soul undergoes cycles of reincarnation, moving from one body to another across different lives.

Here’s what we know about Pythagoras' views on reincarnation:

**1. Pythagoras and the Concept of Reincarnation (Metempsychosis)

• Metempsychosis (Greek: μετεμψύχωσις) is the term often used to describe Pythagoras' belief in the transmigration of the soul. This idea is similar to reincarnation, but with a more specific focus on the soul moving between different forms of life.

• Pythagoras' beliefs about reincarnation are largely drawn from later sources, as his teachings were passed down through his disciples and other ancient writers. Some key points about his beliefs are:

1.1 The Soul’s Journey

• According to Iamblichus, a Neoplatonist philosopher who wrote about Pythagoras centuries after his time, Pythagoras taught that the soul was immortal and was trapped in a cycle of death and rebirth, moving from one physical body to another. This cycle would continue until the soul achieved purification or enlightenment.

• In some of the writings attributed to Pythagoras, it is said that the soul is divine and cannot truly die. After death, it passes into another body, and this process is necessary for the soul to learn and eventually purify itself.

1.2 Animal Souls and Human Souls

• One of the most distinctive aspects of Pythagoras' teachings was his belief in the soul's capacity to inhabit different forms of life, not just human ones. It was said that the soul could inhabit both human and animal bodies.

• He famously prohibited his followers from eating meat, partly because he believed that some animals might be the reincarnated souls of humans or noble beings. This ethical stance, rooted in compassion, led to the development of his philosophy of vegetarianism as part of spiritual discipline. He is said to have believed that by eating meat, one could be complicit in the suffering of a soul.

1.3 Pythagoras' Own Reincarnations

• There are several legends about Pythagoras himself, suggesting that he had past lives and memories of them. Some sources suggest that he was a reincarnation of an earlier figure, like the great hero Hercules, or that he had lived multiple times in previous lifetimes, acquiring knowledge from each.

• Iamblichus mentions that Pythagoras was able to recall memories from previous lives, which indicates that he might have believed in a continuity of consciousness across reincarnations. This idea is particularly significant because it hints that personal identity could be preserved across lives, even if the body and circumstances changed.

2. Reincarnation in Pythagorean Philosophy

Pythagoras' teachings about reincarnation were closely tied to his philosophy of purification and asceticism. Here are a few key principles:

2.1 The Role of Knowledge and Purification

• For Pythagoras, the ultimate goal was the purification of the soul. The soul could be purified through wisdom, ascetic living, and mathematical and philosophical contemplation. By adhering to the Pythagorean lifestyle, one could attain a state of oneness with the divine and eventually escape the cycle of reincarnation.

2.2 Mathematics and the Divine Order

• Pythagoras believed that the universe was governed by mathematical principles. The Pythagorean tradition saw numbers as the essence of all reality. The soul’s journey through multiple incarnations was seen as part of its quest to understand and become attuned to the divine order of the cosmos.

2.3 The Pythagorean “Golden Verses”

• The Golden Verses of Pythagoras, a collection of moral aphorisms attributed to him, include references to the soul's purification. While the verses do not explicitly discuss reincarnation, they suggest a focus on moral behavior and self-discipline—both important for spiritual evolution.

2.4 Soul’s Liberation

• In Pythagorean philosophy, the soul’s goal was to eventually achieve liberation from the cycle of birth and death. This liberation could occur when the soul reached its highest state of purity and intellectual development. The cycle of reincarnation would end when the soul could no longer descend into material forms and instead returned to a higher, divine state.

3. Sources and Later Influence

Pythagoras himself left no writings, so much of what we know about him comes from later sources. Some key sources include:

• Iamblichus, who was a Neoplatonist philosopher and wrote about Pythagoras’ teachings in his book "On the Mysteries".

• Porphyry, a student of Plotinus, also wrote about Pythagoras’ teachings, including his ideas on the soul and reincarnation.

• Herodotus and other early historians mention Pythagoras’ wisdom, though their accounts do not focus heavily on reincarnation.

Later, Plato, who was influenced by Pythagoras, incorporated ideas of the soul's immortality and reincarnation in his dialogues, such as in the "Phaedo" and "Republic".

4. Conclusion

Pythagoras' teachings on reincarnation were intertwined with his broader views on the soul, ethics, and the nature of the universe. His belief in the immortality of the soul and its cycles of rebirth (metempsychosis) strongly influenced later philosophers, including Plato, and even early Christian Gnostics. The idea that the soul could be reincarnated in human or animal forms, and that purification and asceticism could eventually break the cycle, offers a profound view of the soul's journey toward enlightenment and unity with the divine.

Absolutely! Let’s dive deeper into Pythagoras’ teachings on reincarnation, how they influenced later thinkers like Plato, and the connections to the broader philosophical traditions that integrated or expanded on ideas of the soul, purification, and metempsychosis (reincarnation).

**1. Pythagoras’ Concept of the Soul and Reincarnation: A Closer Look

Pythagoras’ concept of the soul, reincarnation, and purification is rooted in a holistic philosophy where the soul is seen as an immortal, divine entity caught in a cycle of birth, death, and rebirth until it can transcend this cycle. His belief in metempsychosis (the transmigration of the soul) suggests that the soul could be reborn into various forms — human, animal, or even divine — depending on the state of its purity.

1.1 The Role of Mathematics in the Soul’s Journey

Pythagoras’ mathematical worldview underpins his understanding of the soul’s journey. He viewed the universe as a harmonious system governed by numbers. Everything in the cosmos, from the motion of the planets to the proportions of a musical scale, could be explained by mathematical principles.

For Pythagoras, the soul’s purification was not just an ethical matter—it was also a matter of aligning oneself with the divine mathematical order. The pursuit of philosophical and mathematical knowledge was seen as a means to ascend spiritually. By contemplating the geometrical and numerical nature of the universe, the soul could rise beyond the limitations of the material world and break free from the cycle of reincarnation.

2. Pythagoras and the Purification of the Soul

The idea of purification was central to Pythagoras' teachings. This process was seen as essential for the soul to transcend the cycles of reincarnation and achieve its highest state—oneness with the divine.

2.1 The Pythagorean Way of Life

To purify the soul, Pythagoras prescribed a strict ethical lifestyle. His followers adhered to a number of rules, including:

• Vegetarianism: Pythagoras prohibited the eating of meat, as he believed that eating animals might involve consuming the souls of beings that were once human. This was especially important because, in his philosophy, compassion for all living things was essential to the soul's purification.

• Mathematical Study: Pythagoreans studied numbers and geometry as a way of understanding the divine structure of the universe. This intellectual discipline helped elevate the soul and bring it closer to enlightenment.

• Music: Music, for Pythagoras, was a form of cosmic harmony. It was believed that by understanding musical intervals and scales, one could tune the soul to the cosmic rhythms and thus aid in its spiritual purification.

2.2 The Importance of Ethical Behavior

Ethics were a cornerstone of Pythagoreanism. The teachings placed a high value on self-discipline, moderation, and the cultivation of virtue. The soul, in this view, was sullied by immoral actions, and only through righteous living could it attain the necessary purity to break free from reincarnation.

2.3 The Cycle of Rebirth and Its End

Pythagoras taught that the soul, after numerous lifetimes, could eventually reach a state of purity where it would be freed from the cycle of rebirth. This state of spiritual liberation, sometimes referred to as "escape from the wheel of birth", would allow the soul to merge with the divine and return to a transcendent realm.

In Pythagorean thought, the ultimate goal of the soul was to transcend the material world entirely, not just escape the cycle of reincarnation. By living a life of virtue, wisdom, and philosophical contemplation, the soul could reach a level of purity where it could unite with the divine source.

3. Plato and the Legacy of Pythagoras’ Views on the Soul

Pythagoras’ ideas on reincarnation and the immortality of the soul deeply influenced Plato, who is arguably the most important philosopher in Western history to develop and expand on these teachings.

3.1 The Influence of Pythagoras on Plato’s Theory of the Soul

Plato was heavily influenced by the Pythagorean view of the soul as eternal and the idea of reincarnation as a form of soul purification. In fact, Plato’s Theory of Forms and his teachings on the immortality of the soul closely mirror many of the concepts in Pythagorean thought.

Plato's Reincarnation Doctrine (particularly in the Phaedo):

In the Phaedo, Plato discusses the nature of the soul and its immortality. He agrees with Pythagoras that the soul is immortal and undergoes cycles of rebirth. Plato introduces the idea that the soul’s moral development and wisdom during its earthly lives will determine its future reincarnations. The soul, after death, can be reborn into a higher or lower form of life depending on its past deeds and knowledge.

Plato’s concept of the soul’s journey is linked to his Theory of Recollection (in which learning is actually the recollection of knowledge the soul possessed in past lives). He posits that the soul, before birth, existed in a state of perfect knowledge and harmony with the Forms (ideal concepts of truth, beauty, justice, etc.). Through reincarnation, the soul forgets this perfect knowledge, but over time, by contemplating the Forms, it can gradually remember them and ultimately reunite with the divine.

The Myth of Er (Republic, Book X):

One of the most famous sections of Plato’s work is the Myth of Er in the Republic, which describes the afterlife and the soul’s journey after death. In this myth, Plato imagines a scenario where the souls of the dead are judged and then reincarnated into new bodies. The choices the soul makes in choosing its next life are influenced by its previous experiences. The myth reinforces the idea of moral choice and how it impacts the soul’s future fate.

4. The Broader Impact of Pythagorean Reincarnation Doctrine

Pythagoras’ teachings on reincarnation didn’t just influence Plato—they also impacted later philosophers, religious movements, and mystical traditions in the Western world. Some of the most significant examples include:

4.1 Neoplatonism and Iamblichus

• Iamblichus, a prominent Neoplatonist philosopher, expanded on Pythagoras’ teachings by elaborating a more mystical vision of the soul’s journey. Iamblichus argued that the soul undergoes multiple reincarnations, each one offering the opportunity for greater purification and spiritual ascent. In his system, souls could ascend through the divine realms by undergoing rituals and philosophical training, a view influenced by both Pythagoreanism and Platonic thought.

4.2 The Gnostic Tradition

• Gnostic teachings, which were part of early Christianity, also incorporated ideas of soul purification and reincarnation, although they were often more mystical and esoteric. Gnostics believed that the soul could escape the material world (which they saw as flawed and corrupt) and ascend to the divine realm of pure light and knowledge.

4.3 Influence on Early Christianity

• Early Christian thinkers, including Origen, were deeply influenced by Pythagoras and Platonic thought, and reincarnation appeared in some early Christian texts and debates. However, it was later rejected in favor of the doctrine of the resurrection of the body, particularly after the Second Council of Constantinople in 553 CE.

5. Conclusion: Pythagoras’ Reincarnation Doctrine as a Spiritual Framework

Pythagoras’ teachings on reincarnation present a spiritual framework in which the soul is an eternal entity undergoing a cycle of birth, death, and rebirth. The soul's journey is not one of random chance but of purification and ascent toward higher knowledge. Through philosophy, ethics, and a disciplined way of life, the soul can ultimately transcend the material world and return to the divine source.

Plato inherited many of these ideas and extended them within his Theory of Forms and teachings on the immortality of the soul. The legacy of Pythagorean reincarnation has thus endured through the centuries, influencing various philosophical and spiritual traditions that emphasize the soul’s ongoing journey toward purification, knowledge, and divine unity.

If you’re curious to explore the connections with later philosophers, the Gnostic tradition, or any other elements, feel free to ask!

Ah, right! Pythagoras's influence on Christian Gnosticism is a fascinating intersection of ancient philosophy and early Christian thought. While the connection isn't always direct or immediately obvious, there are a number of ways in which Pythagoras's ideas might have indirectly or directly influenced Gnostic ideas, especially regarding the soul, the material world, and spiritual ascent.

**1. Pythagorean Influence on Early Christian Mysticism

Gnosticism, as a movement within early Christianity, emphasized the soul's journey toward enlightenment, which involved transcending the material world and returning to a divine realm of pure knowledge (gnosis). Pythagoras's belief in the soul's immortality and transmigration aligns with the Gnostic concept of the soul's need for liberation from the physical world.

• Reincarnation and Liberation: In Gnostic thought, the soul's cycle of incarnation was often seen as a form of bondage. The material world, which is corrupt and imperfect, traps the soul, and the goal is to escape it through the acquisition of secret knowledge or gnosis. Pythagoras's idea that the soul undergoes a series of lives in different bodies could have resonated with the Gnostic view of the soul's need to evolve and purify itself. While the Gnostics didn't necessarily believe in reincarnation as the Pythagoreans did, the overall theme of spiritual ascent out of the physical realm can be seen as an echo of Pythagorean thought.

2. Dualism and the Concept of the Divine

Pythagoras and his followers believed in a kind of dualism—an understanding that the physical and spiritual realms were separate, with the latter being superior and more "real" than the former. This dualism is strikingly similar to the Gnostic view that the material world, created by a lesser divine being (often referred to as the "Demiurge"), was a prison for the soul. In Gnostic thought, the material world was considered an illusion, and salvation was found in escaping it through spiritual knowledge.

• The Hierarchy of the Divine: Pythagoras also believed in a hierarchy of the divine, with the highest form of existence being a perfect, transcendent unity (often associated with the "One" or the "Good"). This is somewhat reflected in Gnosticism, where the highest God or divine principle is often unknowable and transcendent, and salvation is about returning to this higher source by acquiring gnosis.

3. Mathematics, Harmony, and Divine Order

Pythagoras was fascinated by mathematics and the idea that the universe operates through harmonious, numerical principles. He believed that understanding the mathematical order of the cosmos could reveal deeper truths about the divine. In Gnostic texts, especially those from the Nag Hammadi library, there is a strong emphasis on hidden knowledge—often encoded in symbolism, numbers, or abstract concepts—which the Gnostics believed could lead the soul to enlightenment.

• Gnosis and Numbers: Gnostics often viewed the material world as a "false" or "illusory" world created by an imperfect being, but they believed that secret knowledge (gnosis) could reveal the true nature of reality and lead the soul to salvation. The idea of a hidden order in the universe, a concept embraced by Pythagoras through mathematics and numerology, likely appealed to early Christian Gnostics. They could see parallels between Pythagoras’s cosmic order and their own pursuit of hidden truths.

4. The Role of Purification and Ethical Living

Pythagoras stressed the importance of living a pure and virtuous life to align oneself with the divine order. This included practices like vegetarianism, ethical behavior, and self-discipline, all of which contributed to the purification of the soul. Similarly, Gnosticism emphasized purity, both moral and spiritual, as a way to ascend beyond the physical and into the realm of the divine.

• Asceticism in Gnostic Practices: The idea that the soul must be purified and disciplined is evident in many Gnostic traditions, which advocated for ascetic lifestyles. In this way, the Pythagorean emphasis on purifying the soul through ethical and dietary practices likely influenced some of the more ascetic Gnostic sects, such as those that emphasized renunciation of the material world.

5. The Concept of the Divine Spark

In Pythagorean thought, the soul was often viewed as a divine, spark-like essence that could, over time, achieve union with the divine source by undergoing purification and ascension. Similarly, Gnosticism also held that each person contained a "divine spark" or "inner light" that had become trapped in the material world. The goal of Gnosis was to awaken this divine spark through secret knowledge and return to the higher realms from which it originated.

• Divine Knowledge and Rebirth: For both the Pythagoreans and the Gnostics, true knowledge (whether through mathematics, philosophy, or gnosis) was the key to understanding one’s divine nature and transcending the material body. In Gnostic texts like the Gospel of Thomas or the Gospel of Mary, there is a theme of “rebirth”—the soul awakening to its true nature, much like Pythagoras believed that the soul would eventually awaken to its higher spiritual reality.

6. Influence on Gnostic Figures

Certain early Christian Gnostic thinkers may have had direct exposure to Pythagorean teachings or, at the very least, the philosophical and spiritual currents that Pythagoras helped shape. For example:

• Valentinus: A prominent Gnostic teacher, Valentinus, who was active in the 2nd century CE, espoused many of the dualistic ideas and notions of spiritual ascent that resemble Pythagorean thought. Valentinus's ideas about the divine realm and the process of salvation could have drawn from similar sources of mysticism that Pythagoras and his followers explored.

• Plotinus: Although Plotinus was a Neoplatonist, his system also shared affinities with Pythagorean ideas, especially regarding the relationship between the One (or the Good) and the multiplicity of existence. Plotinus's metaphysical system, which emphasizes the soul’s return to unity with the divine, was hugely influential on later Christian mysticism and Gnosticism.

Conclusion

While Pythagoras himself might not have directly influenced every aspect of early Christian Gnosticism, his teachings on the soul, the importance of purification, and the relationship between the divine and the material world likely had a profound impact on Gnostic thinkers. The Gnostics, in their pursuit of hidden knowledge and spiritual enlightenment, would have found echoes of Pythagorean philosophy in their own quest to escape the physical world and ascend to a higher, more divine state.

Let’s look at some specific Gnostic texts that show resonances with Pythagorean philosophy, particularly around the soul’s journey, dualism, purification, and divine knowledge. While these texts don’t usually cite Pythagoras, many of their ideas strongly echo Pythagorean and Neopythagorean thought, likely through the shared influence of Platonism, Middle Platonism, and Hellenistic mystery religions.

🌀 1. The Apocryphon of John (Secret Book of John)

This foundational Sethian Gnostic text is the most detailed cosmology in the Nag Hammadi Library.

Key resonances with Pythagorean ideas:

• Cosmic Dualism: The high, ineffable God produces a divine realm of Aeons (perfect spiritual beings), while a lesser being, the Demiurge, creates the flawed material world. This reflects Pythagorean and Platonic dualism between the perfect, immaterial world and the imperfect material one.

• Soul Entrapment: Human souls are divine sparks trapped in material bodies. The soul must awaken and return to the Pleroma (Fullness), a concept that parallels the Pythagorean idea of the soul's transmigration and eventual return to the divine order.

• Mathematical/Logos Structure: There’s a complex series of emanations and principles that structure the universe. This hierarchical and “ordered” structure resembles Pythagorean views of a mathematically ordered cosmos.

✍️ "This is the first thought, his image; she became the womb of everything, for she is prior to them all, the Mother-Father." — Apocryphon of John

This "origin in thought" (nous) echoes the Pythagorean sense that reality arises from a primary principle, not a physical cause.

🌌 2. The Pistis Sophia

Though later and more elaborate (3rd–4th century), Pistis Sophia deeply explores the ascent of the soul through layers of heavenly realms — a concept similar to the Pythagorean soul’s upward journey through purification.

Key parallels:

• Multiple Reincarnations: Souls may reincarnate repeatedly until they acquire the gnosis necessary to ascend. While Gnostics didn’t always agree on reincarnation, Pistis Sophia includes it as a mechanism for purification — very close to the Pythagorean cycle of rebirth.

• Heavenly Spheres: The soul passes through a series of levels or aeons, similar to the Pythagorean idea of cosmic spheres associated with planets and harmonies (the "music of the spheres").

✍️ "Every soul must pass through the rulers of the great spheres… and answer for all its deeds." — Pistis Sophia

This bears a striking resemblance to Pythagorean doctrines on cosmic justice and moral accounting after death.

🔥 3. The Gospel of Mary (Magdalene)

This text emphasizes inner knowledge, purification, and liberation from lower forces (the archons), and it bears a philosophical tone akin to Pythagorean and Platonic teachings.

Key themes:

• Ascension of the Soul: Mary describes the soul rising through hostile powers who challenge it. The soul answers them with spiritual truths and is gradually freed — reminiscent of the Pythagorean soul rising after death if purified.

✍️ "The soul answered saying: 'What binds me has been slain, what surrounds me has been destroyed…'" — Gospel of Mary

• Knowledge as Liberation: True knowledge liberates the soul — a central idea for both Pythagoreans (who saw philosophy as soul-purification) and Gnostics.

🧭 4. The Dialogue of the Savior

This lesser-known text is a dialogue between Jesus and disciples (like Thomas and Matthew), emphasizing detachment from the material and the soul’s need to become like the "perfect human."

Pythagorean echoes:

• Self-Discipline and Detachment: The text speaks of the need to withdraw from the world and live with moderation and watchfulness, aligning with Pythagorean asceticism.

• The Inner Path: Like the Pythagorean inward journey of the soul, this gospel focuses not on outward rituals but on inward knowledge and moral purification.

🔮 Summary of Core Overlaps

Lets do a side-by-side comparison of Pythagorean and Gnostic texts to highlight their shared worldview, particularly around:

• The soul’s entrapment and ascent

• Ethical purification

• The illusion or lower nature of the material world

• Salvation through inner knowledge

**🔁 1. The Soul’s Journey and Liberation

🌀 Pythagorean (Iamblichus, Life of Pythagoras §71):

“He declared that the soul is immortal, and that it transmigrates into other kinds of animals. Further, that all events recur in cycles, and that nothing is absolutely new. The soul is purified through philosophy, which delivers it from the cycle of birth.”

✨ Gnostic (Gospel of Mary, 8:22–24):

“The soul answered, saying, ‘I saw you. You did not see me nor recognize me. I served you as a garment, and you did not know me.’”

🔍 Commentary:

• Pythagoras teaches that the soul is trapped in cycles (reincarnation) and escapes through philosophy and moral purification.

• Mary's Gospel presents the body as a garment, a Gnostic metaphor for the soul’s entrapment in matter. True identity lies within, invisible to the world.

• Both see the body and physical world as obstacles, and liberation comes through inner awakening or philosophical/spiritual insight.

⚖️ 2. Purification and Self-Mastery

🌀 Pythagorean (Golden Verses, lines 40–43):

“Practice justice in word and deed, and learn to control your passions. In all things, know thyself. If you do these things, you will follow the path of the divine.”

✨ Gnostic (Dialogue of the Savior, 137:10–20):

“Blessed is he who has crucified the world and has not become the world’s servant… Be sober and do not go astray.”

🔍 Commentary:

• Both promote moral discipline and self-control as essential steps toward divine union.

• The Pythagorean path is ethical and reflective (“know thyself”), while Gnosticism adds the idea of escaping the world's spiritual bondage (“crucified the world”).

• In both systems, self-knowledge = divine alignment.

🧱 3. The Material World as a Trap or Illusion

🌀 Pythagorean (Porphyry’s Life of Pythagoras):

“The soul is weighed down and imprisoned in the body, like a tomb. Therefore, we must escape it by turning to the divine, by means of virtue and contemplation.”

✨ Gnostic (Apocryphon of John):

“[The Demiurge] created a world in ignorance, thinking himself the only god. But he was blind… and made the world as a prison for the divine spark within man.”

🔍 Commentary:

• Pythagoreanism sees the body as a tomb (soma sema idea also found in Plato).

• Gnosticism radicalizes this: the whole cosmos is a trap created by a false god (the Demiurge).

• Both urge turning inward or upward to reconnect with the true source.

🔑 4. Knowledge as Salvation

🌀 Pythagorean (Golden Verses, lines 44–47):

“Search and you shall find. Learn to understand everything clearly; and when you have mastered these things, you will escape the cycle of birth and be immortal.”

✨ Gnostic (Pistis Sophia, Ch. 2):

“He said, ‘Blessed is he who has known the struggle and has seen the Light.’ … The one who receives the mysteries will be a child of the Light and return to the Treasury of Light.”

🔍 Commentary:

• Pythagorean wisdom leads to immortality through understanding the hidden structure of reality.

• In Gnosticism, salvation is through gnosis — hidden, often esoteric knowledge of divine origin, structure, and destiny.

• Both traditions exalt knowledge (not blind faith or ritual) as the means to escape the lower world.